From: Snapshot-Content-Location: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/robert-fisk-osama-bin-laden-interview-sudan-1993-b1562374.html Subject: 6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace | The Independent Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2024 08:38:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="----MultipartBoundary--U8jUCygFYk3aeCfdxD1opYIWsrSprz1imrRt2HEvjV----" ------MultipartBoundary--U8jUCygFYk3aeCfdxD1opYIWsrSprz1imrRt2HEvjV---- Content-Type: text/html Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Location: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/robert-fisk-osama-bin-laden-interview-sudan-1993-b1562374.html = 6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace | T= he Independent

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The Best o= f Fisk

6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warr= ior puts his army on the road to peace

Robert Fisk is the first western journalist to interview Osama = bin Laden, =E2=80=98the Saudi businessman=E2=80=99 overseeing large-scale b= uilding work in Sudan

Wednesday 04 November 2020 01:36 GMT
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3D"Bin
Bin Laden in Sudan in 1993 (Robert Fisk)

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Osama bin Laden sat in his gol= d-fringed robe, guarded by the loyal Arab mujahedin who fought alongside hi= m in Afghanistan. Bearded, taciturn figures =E2=80=93 unarmed, but never mo= re than a few yards from the man who recruited them, trained them and then = dispatched them to destroy the Soviet army =E2=80=93 they watched unsmiling= as the Sudanese villagers of Almatig lined up to thank the Saudi businessm= an who is about to complete the highway linking their homes to Khartoum for= the first time in history.

With his high cheekbones, narrow eyes and= long brown robe, Mr bin Laden looks every inch the mountain warrior of muj= ahedin legend. Chadored children danced in front of him, preachers acknowle= dged his wisdom. =E2=80=9CWe have been waiting for this road through all th= e revolutions in Sudan,=E2=80=9D a sheikh said. =E2=80=9CWe waited until we= had given up on everybody =E2=80=93 and then Osama bin Laden came along.= =E2=80=9D

Outside Sudan, Mr Bin L= aden is not regarded with quite such high esteem. The Egyptian press claims= he brought hundreds of former Arab fighters back to Sudan from Afghanistan= , while the western embassy circuit in Khartoum has suggested that some of = the =E2=80=9CAfghans=E2=80=9D whom this Saudi entrepreneur flew to Sudan ar= e now busy training for further jihad wars in Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt. M= r Bin Laden is well aware of this. =E2=80=9CThe rubbish of the media and th= e embassies,=E2=80=9D he calls it. =E2=80=9CI am a construction engineer an= d an agriculturalist. If I had training camps here in Sudan, I couldn=E2=80= =99t possibly do this job.=E2=80=9D

Recommended
  • 3D"Fisk= Fisk was a =E2=80=98historian of the present=E2=80=99 who illuminated the w= orld

And =E2=80=9Cthis job=E2=80=9D is certain= ly an ambitious one: a brand-new highway stretching all the way from Kharto= um to Port Sudan, a distance of 1,200km (745 miles) on the old road, now sh= ortened to 800km by the new bin Laden route that will turn the coastal run = from the capital into a mere day's journey. Into a country that is despised= by Saudi Arabia for its support of Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War almost a= s much as it is condemned by the United States, Mr Bin Laden has brought th= e very construction equipment that he used only five years ago to build the= guerrilla trails of Afghanistan.

He is a shy man. Maintaining a home in Khartoum and only a small apartment= in his home city of Jeddah, he is married =E2=80=93 with four wives =E2=80= =93 but wary of the press. His interview with The Independent was th= e first he has ever given to a western journalist, and he initially refused= to talk about Afghanistan, sitting silently on a chair at the back of a ma= keshift tent, brushing his teeth in the Arab fashion with a stick of miswak= wood. But talk he eventually did about a war which he helped to win for th= e Afghan mujahedin: =E2=80=9CWhat I lived in two years there, I could not h= ave lived in a hundred years elsewhere,=E2=80=9D he said.

When the hi= story of the Afghan resistance movement is written, Mr Bin Laden=E2=80=99s = own contribution to the mujahedin =E2=80=93 and the indirect result of his = training and assistance =E2=80=93 may turn out to be a turning-point in the= recent history of militant fundamentalism; even if, today, he tries to min= imise his role. =E2=80=9CWhen the invasion of Afghanistan started, I was en= raged and went there at once =E2=80=93 I arrived within days, before the en= d of 1979,=E2=80=9D he said. =E2=80=9CYes, I fought there, but my fellow Mu= slims did much more than I. Many of them died and I am still alive.=E2=80= =9D

Four more bombs were dropped from a Russian plane on = our headquarters but they did not explode. We beat the Soviet Union. The Ru= ssians fled

Osama = bin Laden

Within months, however, Mr Bin Laden was sending= Arab fighters =E2=80=93 Egyptians, Algerians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, Turks an= d Tunisians =E2=80=93 into Afghanistan; =E2=80=9Cnot hundreds but thousands= ,=E2=80=9D he said. He supported them with weapons and his own construction= equipment. Along with his Iraqi engineer, Mohamed Saad =E2=80=93 who is no= w building the Port Sudan road =E2=80=93 Mr Bin Laden blasted massive tunne= ls into the Zazi mountains of Bakhtiar province for guerrilla hospitals and= arms dumps, then cut a mujahedin trail across the country to within 15 mil= es of Kabul.

=E2=80=9CNo, I was never af= raid of death. As Muslims, we believe that when we die, we go to heaven. Be= fore a battle, God sends us seqina, tranquillity.

=E2=80=9COnce I was= only 30 metres from the Russians and they were trying to capture me. I was= under bombardment but I was so peaceful in my heart that I fell asleep. Th= is experience has been written about in our earliest books. I saw a 120mm m= ortar shell land in front of me, but it did not blow up. Four more bombs we= re dropped from a Russian plane on our headquarters but they did not explod= e. We beat the Soviet Union. The Russians fled.=E2=80=9D

But what of the Arab mujahedin whom he took to = Afghanistan =E2=80=93 members of a guerrilla army who were also encouraged = and armed by the United States =E2=80=93 and who were forgotten when that w= ar was over? =E2=80=9CPersonally neither I nor my brothers saw evidence of = American help. When my mujahedin were victorious and the Russians were driv= en out, differences started [between the guerrilla movements] so I returned= to road construction in Taif and Abha. I brought back the equipment I had = used to build tunnels and roads for the mujahedin in Afghanistan. Yes, I he= lped some of my comrades to come here to Sudan after the war.=E2=80=9D

<= p>How many? Osama bin Laden shakes his head. =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t want = to say. But they are here now with me, they are working right here, buildin= g this road to Port Sudan.=E2=80=9D I told him that Bosnian Muslim fighters= in the Bosnian town of Travnik had mentioned his name to me. =E2=80=9CI fe= el the same about Bosnia,=E2=80=9D he said. =E2=80=9CBut the situation ther= e does not provide the same opportunities as Afghanistan. A small number of= mujahedin have gone to fight in Bosnia-Herzegovina but the Croats won=E2= =80=99t allow the mujahedin in through Croatia as the Pakistanis did with A= fghanistan.=E2=80=9D

Thus did Mr Bin Laden reflect u= pon jihad while his former fellow combatants looked on. Was it not a little= bit anticlimactic for them, I asked, to fight the Russians and end up road= -building in Sudan? =E2=80=9CThey like this work and so do I. This is a gre= at plan which we are achieving for the people here, it helps the Muslims an= d improves their lives=E2=80=9D.

His Bin Laden company =E2=80=93 not = to be confused with the larger construction business run by his cousins =E2= =80=93 is paid in Sudanese currency which is then used to purchase sesame a= nd other products for export; profits are clearly not Mr Bin Laden=E2=80=99= s top priority.

How did he feel about = Algeria, I asked? But a man in a green suit calling himself Mohamed Moussa = =E2=80=93 he claimed to be Nigerian although he was a Sudanese security off= icer =E2=80=93 tapped me on the arm. =E2=80=9CYou have asked more than enou= gh questions,=E2=80=9D he said. At which Mr Bin Laden went off to inspect h= is new road.

Following the death of Robert Fisk on 30 October 2020= , The Independent has reproduced some of his best dispatches from 30 years = of reporting 

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